Okay...it seems I was much more confusing with my previous post than I meant to be. So let me back up and enter into a discussion..."What does it meant to be a Christian?" Is it holding to a certain creed, is it living a certain lifestyle, is it a combination of both, is it a point of view or set of convictions, is it some combination that is hard to define. Is that even the right question to ask?
See here's my problem...there's too many opinions and I personally feel like nobody is really saying anything! Everything is up for questioning (which I have no problem with and enjoy), BUT I don't feel any closer to understanding. Maybe I'm not digging hard enough, if I’m not, that's good to know. Maybe I'm making it more complicated than it needs to be, again good to know. I think what bothers me is that things that have unified Christians as believers in the past are now fluid and vary from person to person and here lately that's hard for me. I need something solid, something sure. I feel lost in a pluralistic world with no definition.
See I've been "in church" now for a while. All my delusions of life "in ministry" have come crashing to the ground and I’m back to longing for a simple gospel. A simple hope that brings eternity into every life experience. Maybe I read too much, maybe I think too much, maybe it’s the pizza I had for lunch…I don’t know…I just feel like I should be “sure” (whatever that means), but honestly…sometimes…I’m not. I don’t mean I’ve lost faith in Jesus, He is more real to me in some ways than I am to myself, I mean surety in knowing.
So once again, here is the question…”What does it mean to be a Christian?” I would love to hear.
Tuesday, November 14, 2006
Hopefully a better question...
Posted by Ted Ancelet at 3:44 PM
Labels: Spirituality
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
10 comments:
OK, now I see.
What does it mean to be a Christian? To be Christ-like. Clear and simple. We'll be known by the fruit we bear not by what we think. What did Jesus always say? I can only do what I see the Father doing. He had an intimate relationship with His FATHER. Being Christ-like means developing a relationship with our Father God. He say's "no one comes to me without acknowledging my Son." I take this to mean the Father God WANTs us to come to Him. He's calling us into Father-son relationship. We do this by emulating Jesus. Father God wants to fill all our voids in such a way that only a father can. I think Jesus' purpose was to show us just how much the Father loves us. The problem is, no one got it, and still don't.
Remember that early Christians had no "doctrine" so to speak. They could only do as Jesus did and act on His words the best they understood how. I don't think God is too concerned about our philosophies since they're not based on relationship. Once that relationship is built everything else will fall into place.
But, since we are all different that relationship will look different for each of us. Just as you, as a father, relate differently to each of your own children.
Your right. I think your reading and thinking too much. Your looking the the magic bullet. The one thing that will clear it all up. The problem is that there isn't one. No one on the face of this earth has "it". The only one that has "it" is the Father. And the "it" is different for everyone. That, is the source of your frustration. Been there. Done that.
Hey J.
For clarity, when you say "What does it mean to be a Christian? To be Christ-like. Clear and simple. We'll be known by the fruit we bear not by what we think." do you mean it's our actions that determine if we are Christian or not?
p.s. - Yes...i was thinking way too much and got myself all tied up. I'm grateful though, God (as always) has been gracious with me and I'm really enjoying the dialogue.
We both know that people can do many "good" things, and they still aren't Christians. While Christian's can still do bad things. But.
Our actions (speech included) are a direct result of our relationship with God. It's not what we do to show our belief. That's always faulty system. What we do (our fruit) should be a result of our relationship with our Father. We can only give away what we've been given. I can't give away Gods love unless He's given it to me first. Or, stated a different way, I can't give away what I have not RECEIVED. Unfortunately it takes many people a lifetime to receive it. Some never do. That doesn't mean they were never "saved". That only means that our Father has many Good Gifts for us. We simply need to learn to receive them. That's another topic altogether.
I can give MY love away but only in the capacity of what was given to me by my parents. And that is often incomplete and/or conditional.
one response to "what does it mean to be a Christian" might be : to follow Christ.
I think that is a relationship. I don't necessarily think it must involve a creed ... (although, I like Scot McKnight's "Jesus Creed" :
"Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.
Love the Lord your God with all your heart,
And with all your soul,
With all your mind, and with all your strength.
The second is this: Love your neighbour as yourself
There is no other commandment greater than these." This is a Christian creed - it follows Christ.
As is the Lord's Prayer.
And, I recently like the idea of responding to an "altar call" ... but wondering what the invitation should be. The answer I heard was, "we're calling people to come follow Christ."
-s.o
Thanks Shaun, man I always really appreciate your thoughts and heart.
I'm actually being to wonder if the term "Chrisitan" has too much baggage to be useful any more. I know I keep finding myself having to qualify what that means (I was recently reflecting back to our trip to Israel when Yonni said that the term Christian there basically means American, and that he refers to himself as a "follower of Jesus"...eerie how that has come full circle).
You seem to be bothered by the ideas other people have about what Christianity is or should be. What are some of these delusions "in ministry" you speak of?
We had many conversations like this before and I'm wondering what is at the root of it all?
What are you looking for?
Do you remember talking about that U2 song "I still haven't found what I'm looking for?" You couldn't understand how he could say he knew Jesus and still be looking. I feel you are experiencing exactly what he was saying.
A little history about myself..........I really enjoyed our times we had talking, and it made me think. A lot. And you sparked in me a desire to learn more about many different things. And even as I've grown, moved on, and listened to many different well known speakers, one of them stood out the most with this statement. "Do we really need 52 life changing sermons a year?" Part of that hit me like this, if we need 52 life changing sermons a year, then they probably aren't life changing to begin with. His point was, what good does a teaching do if you need a new one next week. Did it even last a week? 24hrs? Till the game comes on? The only thing that has ever been life changing has been a direct encounter with God. Over the past several years, my perception of what church is, and many of the things I used to think have changed drastically. It's become about only one thing. God. My Father. I want to know Him. Nothing else. I want to feel as if God is next to me at all times. Not just say I believe it. I want to KNOW it to my core. I want to hear His voice in an audible way. I want to have real conversations with Him. If I could get there, nothing else would matter. He can tell me everything I need to know.
Hey Jason, once again thanks for your thoughts.
You said, "You seem to be bothered by the ideas other people have about what Christianity is or should be. What are some of these delusions 'in ministry' you speak of?" I think you might be misunderstanding me a little. It's not that I'm bothered by what other people think Christianity is or should be...it’s I want to know. I too remember our conversations at Rel-Tec (doesn’t that seem like a lifetime ago ), they still mean a lot to me. One thing I've really grown to understand about my "personal" walk with Christ is that it's really not personal. One of the issues I see in Christianity that bothers me is the focus on the personal at the cost of the corporate. If you really examine the Scriptures, I believe our faith is a corporate faith, both personal and shared. Take for example the prayer that Jesus teaches to his disciples, what are the first words..."OUR Father...". It's not "my" father, Jesus teaches them to understand God as personal and their faith as corporate. In fact when you look at many of the instances where the word “you” is used it’s often in the plural sense. Jeremiah 29:11 is another example. I’ve heard that quoted some many times and never correctly. When God says he has a plan for “you”…he’s talking to the nation of Israel…a PEOPLE. Now of course this is applicable on a personal level, but it’s primary meaning is corporate.
One of the many impacts this has had on me is that I understand that I’m limited in my ability to understand my own faith. I need others on the journey to talk with, wrestle with, mutually encourage. One of the delusions of “ministry” I was referring to is the lack of community among those in ministry. It is VERY HARD to find people in ministry that are open and honest with their wrestling. That creates an isolation that is not only hard but stupid. I love dialogue, I love to hear what our wild God is doing in others. I am not “sure” all the time, but I do always “hunger and thirst”, and from what I can see that seems to matter more to Jesus.
Well, I'll tell you now, my technical knowledge of the bible isn't the best. I gave up on it a few years back when I realized my desire to learn was centered around my need to be right. To be honest, I haven't even opened a bible with the intent to just read it in serveral years. Just one of my issues. Explain what you mean by "personal at the expense of corporate" and "Jesus teaches them to understand God as personal and their faith as corporate". How can God be personal and faith not be personal. Are you saying that faith is only a result of group activity? Or are you relating it to the Community thing?
I completely understand where your coming from about community. It's what my church is based on, and it's HARD. Life was easier when I was a spectator, but I've grown tremendously from it. Community without intimacy is only an illusion.
The lack of community is a result of fear. People are afraid to reveal their secrets, their unconfessed sin. People are afraid of rejection.
By “personal at the expense of corporate” I wasn’t making a distinction between God being personal and faith not, I was actually trying to merge them. Faith is not only a group thing, if for no other reason than groups are made up of individuals. But it’s equally not only a personal thing. In his book “Our Father Abraham, Dr. Marvin Wilson makes this statement:
“Central to the Hebraic concept of community is the idea of corporate personality. This concept means that the individual was always thought of in the collective (family, tribe, nation) and the collective in the individual. This corporate solidarity was reinforced by the fact that the entire community (past ancestors and future members) was viewed as one personality, "a living whole, a single animated mass of blood, flesh and bones." God’s covenant was made not only with those physically present in the wilderness but also with future generations, "those who are not here today" (Deuteronomy 29:15).”
I think sometimes we just forget that we get a little to “me” centered and loose sight of the beauty and power of community (I think your comment of fear in regard to community is right on by the way).
Post a Comment